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I'll give you Grumpy Old Men...

Wednesday, 16 Feb 11 Overcast 24°C / 75°F

I checked, it’s not April fools day (and I rechecked just in case in my “dottage” I’d imagined I did it)

Today’s Herald Sun newspaper – not the most credible, and always published with the theme of let’s stir the great unwashed (Yes, I’m biting today!) has a lovely article about the older generation, and empty nesters in case you think you’re not included, that are unfairly taking up breathing space that should belong to families. Sorry, I exaggerate, living space.

Lobby group calls for older couples to give up family homes

A PLAN to offer stamp duty relief as an incentive for “grandpas and grandmas” in established suburbs to downsize has been put forward by a major city lobby group.
The Committee for Melbourne is also appealing to the moral sense of empty nesters to free up prime space so that younger generations can be closer to schools and other services.

Moral sense – Pffft. Money sense more like it.

Out of my cold dead hands you’ll get the deeds to the garden!

(post edited to remove profanity – See, I do think of the children! )

This entry is about

All the garden

Comments

  • Sue_McMuffin09

    Sue_McMuffin09 wrote:

    don’t blame you one little bit for not wanting to hand over the deeds to the garden.

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • Tomartyr

    Tomartyr wrote:

    The bloody cheek of it! Why were the schools built there in the first place? Because they were once “Nappy Valleys”. If the Nappy Valleys are now in different places, the government has to locate new schools accordingly. 70 years ago, did groups like this Committee for Melbourne advocate for older folk to move out of Richmond and Fitzroy because that’s where the schools were? No, they built new schools out in the new ‘burbs.
    Anyway, why am I getting stirred up about this? I don’t have to concern myself about Melbourne matters anymore and no-one’s threatening to put a statutory acquisition order on my garden here in Dunedin!

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • sserendipityy

    sserendipityy wrote:

    I can hardly wait (well actually i can’t cos I’ll be dead) till the world no longer measures success, or is guided purely by economics.

    I have a dream that one day a measure of nations wealth will be the ‘Gross Happiness Indicator’ as opposed to the endless numbers.

    It also appears as I get older ,that once you are past 35 you are no longer valued in this society. Laws, taxes, shopping specials, size of supermarket items, homes are all formulated with young families being the target of the benefits.

    Unbelievable. . . graibeard that people think this is a fair and equitable way of dealing with people.

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • HollyBee

    HollyBee wrote:

    Obviously a few bricks short of a load!

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • macchick

    macchick wrote:

    This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of! I cannot believe someone actually had the you know what to even suggest this!

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • TropicanaRoses

    TropicanaRoses wrote:

    How awful graibeard. Stand firm. Your property is yours. Don’t let the stupidty and greed of others rob you of your joy. Just keep on. YOu have a wonderful garden.

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • flowerweaver

    flowerweaver wrote:

    That would raise my fur, too!! They act as if people have no connection to place, or years of effort, or memories! The only ones lacking ‘moral sense’ is the Committee! Stand strong and give them a piece of your mind!

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • rainymountain

    rainymountain wrote:

    Did they suggest where the grandmas and grandpas were to move to? And are they setting an example by selling up their suburban homes and gardens?

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • kris04

    kris04 wrote:

    Your home is your home, doesn’t matter if it’s close to a school or not. What about those grandmas and grandpas that watch grandkids after school? Why can’t they live in a good area like that? Just ignorant…

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • MattMiddleton

    MattMiddleton wrote:

    Wow…my wife and I are a young couple (no kids yet), and I would never expect someone to move out of their house so I can be closer to a school! If there’s a house for sale in a neighbourhood that I’d like to live in, then fine, but there is absolutely no justification for suggesting that the elderly have some sort of “moral” obligation to clear out!

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • JeanneS

    JeanneS wrote:

    Absolute insanity! Entitlement attitudes like this are ruining the industrialized world. You have every right to be outraged, graibeard!

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • Om

    Om wrote:

    How terrible! It takes all kinds, ages, and walks of life to make a community. An area with only families with school age children will suffer all sorts of problems. Balance in all things.

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • Sue_McMuffin09

    Sue_McMuffin09 wrote:

    just going to add a bit more here on this subject, there has been a lot in the media over the years about keeping the grandmas and granddads down here in Tassie in their own homes for a lot longer, I suspect its a way to keep costs down etc for the nursing homes, then you read about something like this going on… I strongly suspect that any social change like this is ridiculous and the only way to change anything is for people to stand up and say NO. Why should they move for younger ones to be closer to schools etc. The grandmas and granddads have worked hard for their properties and gardens, and so they should be outraged to be made to give that all up when there is no real reason for it, which this seems to be..

    I suspect its probably a cost cutting method from government so they don’t have to build more schools in newer areas, could be wrong about that tho..

    sorry if it sounds like I’m on a bandwagon here, but it doesn’t seem right to me.

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • Nakedpippi

    Nakedpippi wrote:

    HUH! I’d like to see the Govt try that one on for size! You should be safe there Graibeard, people power will win out I am sure :)

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • gloryngracefarms

    gloryngracefarms wrote:

    ridiculously sad that a defense would ever have to be made over a subject like this…

    another step towards eliminating anyone deemed undesireable by whomever is in charge in the moment…Lord help us!

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • graibeard

    graibeard wrote:

    Yeah, stunning isn’t it. The shear cheek of it is… is… just mind boggling.

    I know there is no chance of this gaining any momentum without the biggest babysitter strike in history, but the fact that they even ‘thought’ it was worth uttering out loud shows how barren their top paddock is. All this rain has washed their topsoil away, the remaining kangaroo has drowned. What other metaphors for single cell life forms are there?

    You could make the mistake of thinking this was just water on the brain but I’d say they are testing the waters. If public reaction seemed favourable they’d be all over it like the proverbial.

    Posted on 17 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • poppyde

    poppyde wrote:

    Easy fixed…..build units on top of the schools.

    Posted on 18 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • graibeard

    graibeard wrote:

    @poppyde, LOL – Jeff Kennet beat them to it when he sold them off back in 1995 A few ‘lucky’ developers got them and they are now housing estates.

    Posted on 18 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • TropicanaRoses

    TropicanaRoses wrote:

    I know there is no chance of this gaining any momentum without the biggest babysitter strike in history, but the fact that they even ‘thought’ it was worth uttering out loud shows how barren their top paddock is. All this rain has washed their topsoil away, the remaining kangaroo has drowned. What other metaphors for single cell life forms are there?

    Thanks for that graibeard. In dealing with our septic, the local stupidity knows no bounds….but that is for it’s own separate journal. Man. It sounds sort of like a step towards the attitudes they had in WWII towards the Jews…. I am a bit of a conspiracy theory gal….I hope that everything works out for you there.

    Posted on 18 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • hotwired

    hotwired wrote:

    They don’t ask us retirees to move in the US, they just raise school and property tax. I’m in New York, where property tax is about $4.00 per $100 (highest in the Nation). You really don’t own a $200k home here, you rent it for $650/month in tax. I want to move South but my wife’s work keeps us here.

    Posted on 18 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • graibeard

    graibeard wrote:

    @TropicanaRoses, I was speechless reading your journal on the septic, still am.
    @hotwired, I was going to say that seemed a staggering amount but then I checked our rates and they are 3% of NAV Thankfully our NAV must be decidedly lower than what they use for your valuation.
    If it was based on the house prices (that the market gives) over the last decade then we’d be financially ruined. Well, we would have moved out years ago as we wouldn’t be able to outlay that sort of cash. House prices here are useless indicators as they speak nothing of value, only demand and that’s artificially created with negative gearing (tax break for investors).

    Posted on 18 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • Tomartyr

    Tomartyr wrote:

    @hotwired – That seems incredibly expensive. You prompted me to calculate our property tax (called council rates here) as a percentage of property value. Using as an example a residential property with a valuation equivalent to the average sale price in this town over the last year, the total council rates payable amount to 0.7% of that value, although that is not how they are calculated. But then I suppose one has to compare what services one receives (or has available) in return for paying that tax. graibeard’s link shows that in his area, refuse collection is in addition to the rate which is based on a percentage of valuation. In our case the 0.7% is all-inclusive.
    @graibeard – on the Glen Eira website, $25,000 is used as an example of NAV. Is that somewhere near an average?

    Posted on 19 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • graibeard

    graibeard wrote:

    I’ve just had a look at our notice and its 44000.

    After much reading of the fine print, that figure apparently equates to the rental value of the property. They figure if we rented it out then we’d get $44000 per year.

    Are we average, for a house, yes. There are a lot of flats around Caulfield and Carnegie. It sounds like it’s the value somewhere between a house and flat so it’s probably an average of all the NAVS for the whole area.
    So it’s an ‘average’, the same as the ‘average wage’ is an ‘average.’ Creative accounting, or how to make the target fit your audience! :-)

    Posted on 19 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • hotwired

    hotwired wrote:

    There’s rate and assessed valuation here, plus two separate taxes… School Tax and Property Tax. The combined tax is a little over 4%, Sounds better when they tell you it’s 2%, but that’s each. Every now and then they publish a big article in the local paper on how tax is being kept to a 3% increase. That’s the year they raise assessment by 8%. A house with a “real” market value of $130,000 is assessed at around $150,000. Our problem in our County is there are two large Universities, and combined they own 48% of the land. They are tax exempt, but they are responsible for over 95% of the fire and police calls. The end result is that 52% of the property owners are paying 100% of the bills. New York State has the highest taxes in the nation, and our County has the second highest tax in the State.

    Posted on 19 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • EvilChicken

    EvilChicken wrote:

    That’s… that’s… shocking! To insinuate that people should leave their houses, that others have more right to the place just because they procreated? Not all young couples want children. Is it just grandma and grandpa who are supposed to move, or do those who don’t wish to add to the population level supposed to go get squeezed into a small apartment somewhere as well? Just because something is more convenient for someone does not give them more right to it than others. Ridiculous notion!

    And @ Hotwired: I can’t believe your tax rate! We wouldn’t be able to afford our house if we had one that high – we’d be paying half again as much as we do in mortgage.

    Posted on 23 Feb 11 (almost 4 years ago)

  • Meela

    Meela wrote:

    Over the last 10 years I’ve often been bitter about the older generation, specifically the Baby Boomers.

    As a group of people they had it good. They didn’t pay for university education, but if they went to uni it meant an instant ticket to a better life. They lived through the 60s/70s sexual and cultural revolutions. They occupy the layer above me at work, and they bitch and moan all the way. They could afford to buy houses in Redfern (but often didn’t – fools!) Those bastards who refuse to take their cyanide pills are driving up the housing prices because they refuse to sell – How dare they!!!!

    But still… its really important for a community to have a generational mix. Those “empty nesters” are probably looking after their grandkids 4 days a week while mum and dad work their asses off to afford a house in a more affluent suburb. That is really what this is about – instant access to the ‘good’ suburbs. You can build more schools in Penrith, but you can’t built any more houses in Vaucluse. The only way to get into a top notch suburb, and a top notch private school is to persuade the oldies to move out.

    We’ve moved into a suburb which is undergoing generational change. A lot of the older people are reaching the end of their lives (or moving to assisted living) and it is freeing up prime real estate (and also some great roadside cleanup opportunities). It does free up nice, spacious places for families like us to move it. Unfortunately, most don’t see “spacious home for the kids”, they see “subdivide and sell”. Its a shame, and again I blame those bloody Baby Boomers!

    (Tongue firmly in cheek here. I don’t really want the BB generation to take cyanide pills – unless they have a really nice house in Redfern they want to give me)

    Posted on 01 Mar 11 (almost 4 years ago)

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