A lot of the tomato advice re: when to transplant and whatnot is written with northern gardeners in mind. My advice is to ignore it. There is no magic number of leaves. Tomatoes will turn any part of their stem that is buried into roots, so larger transplants will give you a jump start on your root system. No matter when you plant them out, bury the stems up to the point where you have just a few leaves above the ground. You have to balance what Northern gardening experts say against what is going on in your particular growing setup. If your seed starting setup is suboptimal, you probably want to accelerate your time table to get the plants outside. For example, I have one south facing window and I'm an unreliable fertilizer. This means for any plant I own, it is better off in the ground or a large pot than it is in my seed starting setup, regardless of what any books tell me I ought to do. I'm in New York, so for me that means the minute there's no danger that the plant will die of too much cold, it goes out. When I was in Southern California, I skipped the whole thing and just direct sowed everything, including tomatoes and peppers, with no ill effects. Looking at your pictures, your seedlings look a bit leggy, suggesting that they aren't getting as much light as they'd like. They might be happier outside. Tomatoes like heat: If your seeds are being started inside and you have air conditioning, they'll be happier outside but you'll want to be careful about hardening them off so they don't get shocked by the sudden temperature change. I seem to recall San Jose being awfully hot and dry this time of year. You need to be sure if you plant them outside that you have the time to water them regularly until they get established. Small plants need more water than big plants. A small seedling would need to be gradually weaned off of daily watering while it waited for it's root system to get big enough to handle weekly deep waterings. A larger transplant could handle less frequent watering and could get weaned onto a weekly watering schedule more quickly. If you are going to be too busy for that level of care, leaving them inside until they have a few more leaves so they'll have a bigger root system when they get planted out might give them a better chance, regardless of how unhappy they are inside. That's assuming they're going into the ground; if they're going to go into pots you'll probably have to water them frequently regardless of plant size so you might as well plant them out sooner than later. Tomatoes require a lot of nutrients. Tomato specific fertilizer will have more of the nutrients that encourage fruiting and less of the nutrients that encourage leafiness, so it's important to use the right fertilizer or you'll have a big leafy plant with no fruit. Tomatoes in pots will need fairly regular feeding; tomatoes in the ground will be more self sufficient if you start with good soil. I don't know what kind of fertilizer you have--some of them have lots of slow release components and trace minerals; most of them are just straight nutrients in the most accessible format, which means they hit the plant all at once then wash away. If your fertilizer falls into the former category, good for you. If it falls into the latter category, I'd go ahead and use it until it's gone since you already have it, but when it's used up, look into getting something better. Either way, I'd just follow the instructions on the fertilizer you bought; I might skimp a bit to see how the plant responds since it's almost always better to under fertilize than to over fertilize. Most (but not all) organic fertilizers fall into the good category. Some non-organic fertilizers are slow release, but they don't necessarily have the trace minerals that organic ones will have. You have to decide what's best for you and your budget. Keep in mind that straight nutrient fertilizer for plants is a lot like processed sugar for people: there are plant analogs to sugar highs and cavities. Too much is not a good thing. If plants get way too much, they can literally burn (in the chemical sense, not in the fire sense). Too much can also kill beneficial microorganisms in your soil. If they get a bit too much they can grow quickly and look lush, but growing too fast can lead to weak growth that attracts insects and makes them more susceptible to disease. While this is certainly better than not growing at all, it's going to mean more work for you than if you can find the right balance. If they get just the right amount, it's a good thing. If you're growing tomatoes in the ground, you'll want to consider the long term health of your soil. I'd look into various organic amendments like compost and worm castings instead of relying on fertilizer alone. If fertilizer is like sugar, compost is like whole grains. Instead of hitting the plant with the full dose of nutrients in one big rush, it will gradually release it over time and have lots of important trace minerals in it. It will also encourage beneficial microorganisms in your soil. I would recommend digging in compost or worm castings when you put in the plant, then put a few scoops on the surface soil near the plant a few times over the course of the season. You might still need some supplemental nutrients if your plants under perform, but not with the same frequency as if they're trying to get by on fertilizer alone. 2009-08-11T11:30:00+10:00 false 12229 2630 2009-08-11T11:30:00+10:00 1237 Firstly - thank you SO much for all of that information - it was above and beyond any feedback I could have ever expected ;_; You are correct about the weather here - it's actually been uncommonly inconsistent over the past few weeks, but this week is hot, with temps rising to 95-97 degrees F, and high 60's at night. I have a tiled window that faces west, but it sticks out from the wall, so it gets a huge amount of afternoon sun - I figured that would have been enough, but if they are looking leggy (which I didn't know how to recognize), then I will definitely follow your advice and harden them off asap so they can go outside. I've been also putting the seedlings near my Aerogarden, where they get a little bit of additional light from 9pm - 2am, which is when the Aerogarden turns off. My ultimate plan for all of my plants are for containers; I actually do have a raised bed in the southwest corner of my backyard, but it hasn't been used in years, and I don't feel experienced enough to prepare the soil accordingly for any kind of growth. (Plus, I think it's too late in the season to start growing things there?) I did purchase fertilizer that is specific for tomatoes, I'm pretty sure it's from Burpee - it should be arriving soon in the mail. I also have the slow-release Osmocote pellets, as well as 10-10-10 plant-food (also pellets) and worm castings available off-hand immediately. I've also ordered Pro-Mix BX off eBay, which what I was going to use to fill the container the tomatoes were going in. The container I have is made of wood, and it's pretty large - maybe 8-10 gallons? Do you think that will be large enough for the root system? I think my battle strategy will be: harden off starting this weekend, and transplant the tomatoes outside in the biggest containers I have, with Pro-Mix and your suggested application of worm castings. I'm not sure if the Pro-Mix will have fertilizers in it already or not though. If it does, so you still suggest that I go with the worm castings? Once again, thank you for all of your help - I've learned a lot, and I really really appreciate your thorough feedback. 2009-08-11T18:27:18+10:00 false 12232 2630 2009-08-11T18:27:18+10:00 10185 You will find that there are some gardeners here that are very knowledgeable, especially about tomatoes. I have a seasoned gardening friend here in town in his 70's that told me a lot of the same things. He said that they can be planted out as soon as 6" tall or so. One thing I remember him saying is that if you do keep them in to develop more leaves, when you go to transplant them, stick all but the top 6" under the dirt, but to be careful when bending it upward not to crease the stem. ( I started mine in early Feb. this year so they were quite tall). @ cmagnus- that was great info! I really appreciated all of the support and info that you gave me at the beginning of the season! Another question that I had that could benefit gnee also is this: My neighbors cherry tomatoes are quite large and round with thin skins and lots of juice. They sort of pop when you bite into them. Mine are either elongated or smallish and round, mostly with thick skins that are just a bit bitter. Am I under watering or what? 2009-08-11T22:08:41+10:00 false 12235 2630 2009-08-11T22:08:41+10:00 5779 re: light. Tomatoes like lots of light. A Southern window might do it. Near an aerogarden is different than directly under the aerogarden. If you've got a single light source, then your light intensity will fall off exponentially with the distance from the bulb. It might be better than nothing, but it's not the full sun they're craving. re: fertilizer. Early on with the babies before you transplant them, you can use your 10-10-10; it's not like they're going to fruit any time soon. You want to fertilize periodically them if you keep them in small starter pots without much soil; it's often soilless starting mix or, even if it's dirt, there's not much of it and the seedlings will deplete its nutrients. Once you've transplanted them, you can probably let them go a few weeks if it's fresh potting soil; by then you'll have the tomato-specific stuff. I don't know anything about this potting soil you're planning on using; I always used whatever they had at my local nursery. You'll want to double check if it's got some sort of slow release fertilizer in it already--some of the fancy soils do. I usually don't bother with them because I like to know what I'm feeding my plants. If it does have built in fertilizer, you might still need some supplemental tomato-specific stuff when it starts fruiting, because eventually it will run out. But you won't need to fertilize it as much early on. You'll have to use your best judgment regarding the switch from relying to what's in the soil to the stuff you bought. You might still put in worm castings. They will have beneficial microorganisms and they will have nutrients bound up in organic matter, which means they will release them gradually over time. re: containers. Tomatoes tend to do better in the ground than in containers, but they do fine in containers. I used to keep them in a 12" pot; I'm not sure how much volume that amounts to, but it's probably the smallest I'd go. 8-10 gallons is probably fine. re: planting time. It's not any later in the season to put things in a pot than in a raised bed, but go with what you're comfortable with. I'm honestly not sure how long your season lasts for tomatoes. In San Diego, on the coast, anyway, they're perennial. But you're further inland and further north so your season is going to be shorter and colder. But I'd expect your plants to last into November or December. I don't know if that's enough time for ripe tomatoes; it will depend on your variety. You're starting much later than normal, but in the winter you can make your plants stick around a little longer by throwing old sheets over them in nights when it's going to frost. Or, if your pot is light enough, you can bring it inside and put it under a florescent light through the winter. My season is too short to reliably get anything but green tomatoes or cherry tomatoes. So I've just developed a taste for green tomatoes. re: TropicanaRoses tomatoes. I would guess it's the variety you've chosen. Ask your neighbor what kind of tomato she's growing and experiment with it next year. If it's something you're doing, I haven't the faintest idea what it is. It sounds more like you've ended up with a variety that's been bred to withstand being shipped around the country instead of a variety that's been selected for taste and tenderness. 2009-08-12T00:11:45+10:00 false 12242 2630 2009-08-12T00:11:45+10:00 1237 @gnee, I think your seeds are mixed up. The plants in the linked image look like beans to me. They have the correct leaf shape for a bean along with the usual thick cotyledons. 2009-08-12T16:56:21+10:00 false 12256 2630 2009-08-12T16:56:21+10:00 5165 graibeard is correct as usual. :) I tried to get a look at the image yesterday, but either the site was updating, my computer needed rebooting, or there was a lot of traffic online here that day, because it was taking forever to load and so I skipped it. But those definitely look like beans, and since the onions appear to be miss labeled, it also stands to reason that these could also be miss labeled. Tomato seedlings have light colored, long and oval shaped leaves. The true leaves look a little ruffly to start and then grow into the traditional tomato leaf that we recognize. :) Hope this helps you to find them!! 2009-08-12T21:59:55+10:00 false 12259 2630 2009-08-12T21:59:55+10:00 5779 You're right. They do look like beans. Well, that explains why they looked leggy. 2009-08-12T23:42:00+10:00 false 12262 2630 2009-08-12T23:42:00+10:00 1237 :D 2009-08-13T01:34:04+10:00 false 12266 2630 2009-08-13T01:34:04+10:00 5779 I love tomatos and so do my pet parrots. "parrot supplies":http://www.superparrots.com/ 2009-09-18T09:02:15+10:00 false 12739 2630 2009-09-18T09:02:15+10:00 11306 I would put them outside after the last frost. Make sure that you don't give them too much water when it is still cold to prevent mold or frostbite. 2009-09-18T23:45:18+10:00 false 12745 2630 2009-09-18T23:45:18+10:00 5072