Hi Jim! For the record, I do not in anyway, claim to be terribly knowledgeable in the plant world, nor do I have an educational background in sciences of the sort…but, as always, I can at least offer my personal experience with indoor veggie gardening! Sorry for lengthiness ahead of time ;)

I started growing my own plants from seed, indoors this March for the first time in my life (that I remember at least lol) and have already learned so much, it is overwhelming. I can say, that from my starting point experience, it doesn’t seem to take much time or effort at all, to start veggies indoors! Mind you, I am fairly “off the beaten path” with my methods of almost everything, and generally “wing it” to begin with, then learn the details after I’ve tried it my way lol. This has its ups and downs in the growing world.

I tried to follow the “lighting” post you and Hotwired, had started, but had to pass it on to my boyfriend James to translate (he’s good with all that scientific speak!), but I do know, that all I had to start my seedlings, was a Sunbox Light that I had actually been given to me by my parents a decade ago, for my S.A.D. issue (light deficiency type depression). I had it set up on my nightstand by the bed (I am horrible about keeping up with watering them, if I’m not directly near them throughout the day), with a mini-greenhouse kit ($5 at local store), seeds and peat pods setup on a chair and all over the nightstand, around it. This seemed to make everything, and for me, I mean everything grow!

I would say several months later, and after harvesting some, lost some and moved some around, I have deduced which could at least be done better next year with all the plants and crops. Here are a few things (some are obvious to a seasoned garden I’m sure) I’ve learned, which I hope at least help you get started!

With carrots – they grow slow, but excellent indoors in peat pods – however, I learned you should do just plain soil, as they did get a bit constricted even when planted outdoors, by the peat netting. Both indoors and outdoors, they seem to great! Ours were beaten up by drought and heat, and poor soil and planting location (oops!), but still produced tasty produce, albeit funny looking and squat.

With Tomatoes – They start off wonderfully indoors, I had at least a dozen back in April that took off in their peat pods. If you have space, lighting, etc indoors they probably would do very well (regarding standard sized to extra large plant varieties). However, I lost half of them when I transplanted them outdoors…I would say smaller plant types of tomatoes would flourish indoors year round, at very low maintenance! We have larger “Big Boy” tomatoes outdoors now, and the 5 survivors have gone through heck and back this season! I would go with cherry tomatoes or something of that nature :)

Lettuce – Oh my goodness, if you enjoy salads, these guys are tough as nails (hardiness wise) and from what I’ve seen, very rarely will NOT seed! I have started 1 full batch of a dozen indoors back in March, almost all of them survived (as long as I didn’t completely forget to water them, when I did lose one or two). I was able to transplant those outdoors later on, and got 7 good sized lettuces! I was so happy with their production, I started a second batch, which I just harvested the last 2 mature heads of :) I hear that this growing I’ve done for them, was a bit off schedule, but they didn’t seem to mind at all, they hated direct sun light, and loved moist soil, which would again, make me feel that they would do excellent year round with the right setup, indoors :)

Cucumbers – I grew tons of these guys! I bought the “Spacemaster” variety, which is meant for hangers and indoor growing spaces. They have all just started showing full cucumbers this week! I lost a few when I transplanted some, but they are extremely easy to get to sprout from seed, and they’re true to their word in space management. I would recommend this to any indoor veggie gardener too. The 7 I have outdoors, are doing excellent as well though and will fill out like normal cucs with the extra available space.

Herbs in general – Just for the record, my parsley did best when in a planter, it has just started to fill out in our outdoor garden, long after being planted there… Basil does wonderfully in planters, and really should be kept to them if you don’t want them taking over! Same with any of the mint family herbs. Calendula does excellent indoors and outdoors, but outdoors is prone to slugs….Dill is great in a planter indoors/outdoors…and I think I’m out of tips!

Lol sorry for long post, but hope it helps! It saddens me when I read how sad and frustrated you are, when you really sound like you are doing a wonderful job! It is all about what you take from it all, and not trying to do too much all at once, I’m learned that you can’t rush gardens, there are many ways to enjoy them even when they’re not doing all that great! Keep it up, with all of the knowledge it sounds like you have (from previous posts) and the zeal you have to keep asking questions and learn, I think you will go far in the gardening world!! Best luck!

Don’t worry JimMarconnet, as Cremmy18 says, your well on your way to the successful garden your hoping for. It’s the failures that help successful people to go on & accomplish great things! Otherwise, how would you learn what not to do what to do & how to TRULY appreciate & be thankful for your successes. Plus you’ve got perseverance. That alone will take you far! I still feel that growing outdoors will give you your greatest success, but starting them indoors often gives you a big advantage & as far as rabbits go, here is a useful link that might help:

http://www.emmitsburg.net/gardens/articles/frederick/2002/rabbits.htm

Otherwise, my best recommendation is to plant your plants in good, healthy soil like you will achieve with a lasagna garden and maybe plant a decoy planting of clover or plantain weed in regular soil in a more remote area of your garden. I know some of the recommendations like fox urine might be hard to come by but they are sold online. My mother had a terrible problem with deer coming onto her property and eating her vegetable plants & flowers and when I told her that different animal urines (including human) were successful in keeping the deer away, she thought it was worth trying to “collect” her own urine & sprinkle it around the perimeter of the areas that she wanted to keep the deer out of & if that seemed remotely successful, then she would consider buying some of the more exotic urines, such as lion urine. She was a little aprehensive about the whole thing and thought there might be some odor involved, but to her surprize, she saw the deer come onto her property and stop and sniif the places she sprinkled the urine and turn around & leave. It has been over a year now & she hasn’t had any of them cross that line since. I know it may sound gross, but people (and animals) have been doing this for a long time to keep other animals away. In India, they even use diluted urine as a very effective & good quality, free, organic fertilizer and to boost their composting capabilities. Now this may not be your cup of tea, but it goes to show that there are all kinds of easy, cheap (or free) ways to solve our garden problems. The good news is you have your folia family who wants to see you achieve the bountiful harvest of your (& our) dreams & we want to help you in any way we can. Just as I can see you are always happy to share whatever info you have with fellow folians.

Just keep up the good work & before you know it, all kinds of good things will come together at the right times & combinations & before you know it, you;ll be thinking, I’m glad I stuck with it! I know all of this has nothing to do with shop lights & growing indoors, but I wish you the best!

P.S. I just started my first indoor garden growing mixed salad greens and have had a constant supply of fresh, tender lettuce all summer! I’m very Happy about that! I, like Cremmy18, will also have to ask your forgiveness in the lengthiness department….

We do have a similar set-up, and you are right—my walls are dark and the plan WAS to paint them white, but it’s about 100 down on my “to do” list at the moment! For a quick fix, I lined the shelves with aluminum foil. Hopefully I will get them painted before Winter.

Anyways, I tried to grow some things that I have not grown indoors before just this past winter, namely tomatoes, radish and carrots. I picked the shortest days to maturity for each variety.

At the risk of sounding discouraging—the experiment was a total fail. The radish and carrots failed to produce anything, and even though the tomato did set fruit, it did not mature.

I cannot provide a reason for this other than maybe the lights I have were not sufficient and perhaps I was not diligent enough with the fertilizer. I also think that the size of containers was too small, even though I researched what the best size should be for the various vegetables I chose. (depth and width).

On a positive note, I have had great success growing herbs (basil, parsley, thyme, oregano, lemon balm, chives) and salad greens (various types of lettuce, kale, arugula, cress). I stagger the sowings so I can have as much of a continuous supply as space allows.

The biggest winner of all is wheatgrass. It grows fast in my kitchen window, even in the dead of winter, with one small light. (The downside to wheatgrass is it requires an investment of a wheatgrass juicer, and it HAS to be a juicer specifically for wheatgrass, trust me, I tried everything to not have to buy one!) I bought 2, 1 kilo bags of wheatgrass for 7 bucks each and they lasted until last month, and I think I only took maybe 4 weeks off of not growing it.

The juicer has paid for itself multiple times already. I won’t blather on about the benefits of wheatgrass, but if you’ve never heard of it—please “google it” and read about all the wonderful nutrients it provides and the health benefits.

In the middle of winter here, nothing is more appreciated than a freshly pressed shot of wheatgrass and it’s always sure to grow.

Ah, this is getting very long too, but I will just finish by saying I think I will stick to the greens and herbs and leave the tomatoes, peppers and “larger” veg to be started indoors but then moved outside. Unless you have room for very large containers.

However, I am now curious about cucumbers that Cremmy18 recommended…………..

Hopefully others will chime in with varieties that they have grown indoors with success.

My indoor bush green beans are setting beans! Yes, I’m so excited! The shop lights do appear to have enough of the different wavelengths to not only grow foliage, but also to set fruit! Did I mention that I’m soooo excited?

I picked 3 green beans today off a bean plant outside in my patio garden that somehow escaped the ravages of the rabbits and grew up very slowly. Now what do I do with 3 green beans? I seriously thought about buying a half pound or perhaps even a pound of fresh green beans at Wal*Mart today to steam these 3 with. No idea how I would have kept the two origins separate. My wife suggested that I stir-fry them in an itsy bitsy very tiny skillet!

Does someone make a handy steamer for 3 green beans at a time? :-)

Congrats on the beans!

Inside gardening:

Peppers: I don’t bother trying to start them from seed indoors, instead I try to overwinter peppers every year. I just bring in the pots & put them in our cool basement in a south facing window. The Jalapenos usually last until about February. They have worked the best for me. Cherry Bombs, Habaneros & Chiles have worked OK too.

Herbs: Parsley, Rosemary, Sage, Thyme, Oregano all produce well in the winter for me. I bring in the pots when the weather turns cold. They all seem to go dormant in mid February. I leave them alone for a month then water them well starting in Mid March. The parsley then becomes a seed producing plant and the rest go back out in the garden & keep producing. I can’t seem to keep Basil going through the winter.

Greens: Like most people in this thread, I have had some success with different greens. They are one of the few things that I can start from seed & bring to harvest indoors.

Potatoes: In the winter of 2011 I bought a huge tub from the hardware store & chitted & planted a few of my small potatoes from the garden in late October. The tub was on the floor of the laundry room in indirect light. I very lightly watered the plants & occasionally forgot about them (hubby does the laundry!!!). In late January we had masses of “new” potatoes for dinner. They didn’t get large but they tasted fantastic! I didn’t get around to planting them last year & regretted it in January.

One more hint – at the first sign of the little white flies try to get rid of them. They seem to love my indoor herb garden. They get out of control quickly & destroy plants. Good luck with your indoor garden!

Many years back in a larger greenhouse I brought home a commercial fucia start that had some whiteflies. I think I had those buggers to deal with until winter froze them out completely. I used the pyrthian (sp) spray that is from marigold extracts I think and had pretty good luck if I remembered to spray it enough. It was a non toxic product.

My winter vegetable experiment continues as well, in another thread I am documenting the journey. The two tomato’s that are the first start have sprouted in the greenhouse. Don’t know how long I will leave them in there to take advantage of the free light and automatic watering system.

Besides growing some salad fixings, I hope to over winter some cuttings from my annuals this winter and not have to buy so many in the spring next year!

I think you found the thread already as I got an update for your user id as a follower, but the slog into winter growing in a cool shop is here: “http://myfolia.com/groups/46-tomato-lovers/topics/7608-led-tomato-growing-for-the-winter/posts#post_41464”

An update:

My two-shelf indoor growing setup is basically full. Yes, I can raise the shop lights about 8 more inches if/when necessary. But the shelves are full, and it’s getting difficult and time-consuming to water the plants in their cottage cheese containers. They don’t slide in and out of the shelving too well since the foliage hangs over so far.

I’ve picked and stir-fried my second picking of green beans from a total of 3 plants bearing. 2 pickings from one plant, and 1 picking from 2 plants. Have a number of other green bean plants blooming, so more green beans will hopefully follow. Would like to have a succession planting underway, but am simply out of shelf space.

See several 1 inch long sugar snap peas forming on my Sugar Lace II plants that are 8-10 inches long. Looks promising! Wish I had more than just 5 of these plants. My 20ish Sugar Ann peas are just growing, no signs of blossoms yet.

I have a blossom getting ready to open on a 5 inch tall Zucchini plant. Should be interesting for sure.

Have two plants each of two different kinds of lettuce. The Burpee Bibb lettuce just flowered (bolted indoors!), so I guess I’d better eat that one soon, if it’s not bitter already!

I have several Tomatoes growing in too small of pots to expect them to bear much if any fruit.

This indoor experiment seems to be working well for me. No way I’ll get large amounts of produce this way, but something can clearly be grown there year-round.

Yes, arw01 they are both dwarf or similar. The Sugar Ann Heirloom are said to be dwarf, 2 feet tall. The Sugar Lace II are said to be compact 30 inch plants.

My Sugar Lace plants seem to basically have stopped growing in their 1 pound cottage cheese containers at about 6-8 inches long.

My Sugar Ann plants seem to still be growing at about 6 inches long. I have them 10 each in 10 inch pots.

I fertilize them both every few days since I figure the fertilizer in the purchased planting mix is probably all gone by now. So far so good!

I got the Sugar Ann Heirloom seeds from White Harvest Seed Company http://whiteharvestseed.com/sugar-ann-snap-pea.html

I got the Sugar Lace II seeds from Park Seed Co. http://parkseed.com/pea-sugar-lace-ii/p/05738/

Although I have no experience with these, several other dwarfs include:

Dwarf Grey Sugar http://www.johnnyseeds.com/p-5746-dwarf-grey-sugar-pea.aspx
https://www.jungseed.com/dp.asp?pID=02871&c=125&p=Dwarf+Grey+Sugar+Pea

Snowbird http://www.burpee.com/vegetables/peas/snow-sugar/pea-snowbird-prod000790.html?catId=3026&trail=

Sugar Snap Dwarf http://www.kingsseeds.co.nz/shop/Vegetables/Alpha+Search+for+Vegetables/Veges+P+%26+Q/Pea+Sugar+Snap+Dwarf-7993.html

One place said, “Green Arrow’, ‘Maestro’, and ‘Patriot’ are three popular dwarf varieties” But I never saw them anywhere.

I personally get Snap Peas and Snow Peas confused, so beware! Here’s something I found about that:

Snap peas are eaten whole, and both the crunchy pod and the peas inside taste sweet. Snap peas yield more food per square foot than the other types.

Snow peas produce tender, flat pods that are eaten whole. Snow peas also produce the most tender vine tips for adding to salads or stir-fries.

Shell peas are often called English peas, because many fine varieties were developed in Great Britain in the 18th century. Sweet green peas are shelled from tough, inedible pods.

Soup peas produce hard, starch-filled seeds for drying inside inedible pods. Seed size and color vary with variety.